Dell FS12-NV7 Review – Bargain FreeBSD/ZFS box

It seems just about everyone selling refurbished data centre kit has a load of Dell FS12-NV7’s to flog. Dell FS-what? You won’t find them in the Dell catalogue, that’s for sure. They look a bit like C2100s of some vintage, and they have a lot in common. But on closer inspection they’re obviously a “special” for an important customer. Given the number of them knocking around, it’s obviously a customer with big data, centres stuffed full of servers with a lot of processing to do. Here’s a hint: It’s not Google or Amazon.

So, should you be buying a weirdo box with no documentation whatsoever? I’d say yes, definitely. If you’re interests are anything like mine. In a 2U box you can get twin 4-core CPUs and 64Gb of RAM for £150 or less. What’s not to like? Ah yes, the complete lack of documentation.

Over the next few weeks I intend to cover that. And to start off this is my first PC review for nearly twenty years.

So the Dell FS12-NV7:

FS-12 looking at the back panel. Note the cowling across the CPUs

As I mentioned, it’s a 2U full length heavy metal box on rails. On the back there are the usual I/O ports: a 9-way RS-232, VGA, two 1Gb Ethernet, two USB2 and a PS/2 keyboard and mouse. The front is taken up by twelve 3.5″ hard drive bays, with the status lights and power button on one of the mounting ears to make room. Unlike other Dell servers, all the connections are on the back, only.

If you want to play with the metalwork, the rear panel is modular and can easily be unscrewed although in practice there’s not much scope for enhancement without changing the  motherboard.

The FS12 has a single 1U PSU

Speaking of metalwork, it comes with  a single 1U PSU. There’s space above it for a second, but the back panel behind the PSU bay would need swapping – or removing – if you wanted to add a second. The area above the existing unit is just about the only space left in the box, and I have thought of piling up a load of 2.5″ drives there.

Taking the top off is where the fun starts. Inside there’s large Gigabyte EATX motherboard – a Gigabyte GA-3CESL-RH. All the ones I’ve seen are rev 1.7, which is a custom version but its similar to a rev 1.4. It does have, of all things, a floppy disk controller and an IDE (PATA) connector. More generally usefully, there are two more USB headers, a second RS-232 and six SATA sockets (3Gb). At the back there’s either a BMC module, or a socket where it used to be. If you like DRAC, knock yourself out (you’re likely to be barely concious to begin with). Seriously, this is old DRAC and probably only works with IE 2.0 or something. (You can probably tell I haven’t bothered to try it). The BIOS also allows you to redirect the console to the serial port for remote starting.

The Ethernet ports are Marvel 88E1116 1Gb, and haven’t given me any trouble. The firmware supports PXE, and I’m pleased to say that WoL works with the FreeBSD drives.

Somebody has pinched the slots!

Unfortunately, while the original Gigabyte model sported twin PCI and three PCIe sockets, the connectors are missing from these examples. It’s hard to find anything with a bit of grunt that can also use with your old but interesting PCI cards. It should be possible to rework it by adding the sockets and smoothing caps and sockets; fortunately the SMD decoupling caps are already still there.  On the other had, you could find another motherboard with PCI sockets if that’s what you really want.

But grunt is what this box is all about, and there’s plenty of that.

This is board was designed for Opteron Socket-F processors; specifically the 2000 series (Barcelona and Shanghi). The first digit refers to the number of physical CPUs that work together (either 2 or 8), the second is a code for the number of cores (1=1, 2=2, 3=4, 4=6, 5=8). The last two digits are a speed code. It’s not the frequency, it’s the benchmark speed.  I’ve heard rumours that some of FS-12s contain six-core CPUs, but I’ve only seen the 2373EE myself. The EE is the low power consumption version. Sweet.

If I could choose any Opeteron Socket-F CPU, the 2373EE is almost as good as it gets. It’s a tad slower than some of the other models running at 2.1GHz , but has significantly lower power and cooling requirements and was one of the last they produced in the 45nm process. It would be possible to change it for a 2.3GHz version, or one with six cores, but otherwise pretty much every other Opteron would be a downgrade. In other words, don’t think you can hot-rod it with a faster processor – you’re unlikely to find a Socket-F CPU anyway. After these, AMD switched to the Bulldozer line in an AM3+ socket.

This isn’t to say the CPU is modern. It does have the AMD virtualisation instructions, so it’s good news if you want to run nested 64-bit operating systems or hypervisors. The thing it lacks that I’d like most are the AES instructions that appeared in Bulldozer onwards. If you’re doing a lot of crypto, this matters. If you’re not, it doesn’t. Naturally, it implements the AMD64 instruction set, as now used by Intel, and all the media processing bit-twiddle stuff if you can use it. AMD has traditionally been at the forefront of processing smarter, whereas Intel goes for brute force and cranks up the clock speed. This is why AMD has, in my opinion, made assembler programming fun again.

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Eight very capable Opteron cores: a good start. This generation supported DDR2 ECC RAM, and these boxes have 16 sockets (eight per CPU). They should be able to support 8Gb DIMMs, although I haven’t been able to verify this. Gigabyte’s documentation on similar motherboards is inconclusive as the earlier boards were from an time when 4Gb was all you could get. Again, I haven’t tried this but they are designed to handle 512Mb DIMMs. 1Gb and 4Gb certainly work and these tend to be available with any FS-12 you buy. At one time DDR2 ECC RAM was rather expensive. Not now. It’s much cheaper than DDR3 because, to be blunt, you can’t use it in very much these days.

And this is what makes the FS12 such a good buy: For about £150 you can get an eight-core processor with 64Gb of RAM. Bargain! And that’s before you look at the disk options.

The FS12, like most Dell Servers, is set up to run Windows and as a result requires a separate volume manager, on hardware designed to pretend Windows is looking at a disk. So-called “hardware” RAID. This takes the form of two PERC6/i cards occupying both PCIe cards on a riser. Fine if you want to run Windows or some other lightweight operating system, but PERC cards are about as naff as you can get for anything Unix-like. They work in RAID mode only, hiding the drives from the OS, and these are just a bit to old to be re-flashed in to anything useful.

The drives fit into a front-loading 12-way array with a SAS/SATA backplane. This is built in to the case; you can’t detach it and use it separately. Not without an angle grinder anyway, although if you really wanted to this would be a practical proposition. Note well that this is a backplane; not an expander, enclosure or anything so complex. Some Dell 2U servers like this do have an expander, which takes four SAS channels of SAS on a single cable and expands them to twelve, but this is the 1:1 version. And it’s an old one at that, using SFF-8484 connectors. If you’ve been using SAS for years you may still never have seen an SFF-8484 (AKA 32-pin Multi-lane). These didn’t last long and were quickly replaced with  the far more sensible SFF-8487(AKA 36-pin Mini-SAS). However, if you can sort out the cables (as I will explain in a later post), this backplane has possibilities.

But as it stands you get a the PERCs and a 12-slot drive array that’s only good for Windows or Linux. Unless, that is, you remove the backplane and the PERCs and make use of the six 3Gb SATA sockets on the motherboard. You’ll have to leave the drives in place and connect the cables directly back, but how many drives do you need?

There is one unfortunate feature of these boxes that is hard to ignore: the cooling. It’s effective, but when you turn it on it sounds like a jet engine spooling up. And then it gets even louder. There a lot you can do about this and I’m experimenting with options, which I’ll explain in a later post, but in the mean time you need to give everyone ear defenders, or install it in an outbuilding and use a KVM extender. I’ve been knocking around data centres for over twenty years and I’ve never heard one this bad.

The cooling is actually accomplished by five fans. Two are 1U size in the PSU, and are probably as annoying as any other ~40mm fan. The real screamers are two 80mm and one 60mm fan positioned between the drive cage and the motherboard. A cowling directs the one 80mm fan across each CPU and its DIMMs and the 60mm gives airflow over the Northbridge and PCI slots. They all spin really fast – in excess of 10,000rpm, and although they have sense and control wires nothing seems to be adjusting them downwards to the required rate.

My suspicion is that either the customer didn’t care about noise but wanted to keep everything as cool as possible, or that whatever operating system was installed (ESX I suspect) had a custom daemon to control their speed via the SAS backplane. I shall be going in to cooling options later, but note that the motherboard has five monitored and software adjustable fan connectors that are currently not used.

So, in summary, you’re getting a lot for your money if its the kind of thing you want. It’s ideal as a high-performance Unix box with plenty of drive bays (preferably running BSD and ZFS). In this configuration it really shifts. Major bang-per-buck. Another idea I’ve had is using it for a flight simulator. That’s a lot of RAM and processors for the money. If you forego the SAS controllers in the PCIe slots and dump in a decent graphics card and sound board, it’s hard to see what’s could be better (and you get jet engine sound effects without a speaker).

So who should buy one of these? BSD geeks is the obvious answer. With a bit of tweaking they’re a dream. It can build-absolutely-everything in 20-30 minutes. For storage you can put fast SAS drives in and it goes like the wind, even at 3Gb bandwidth per drive. I don’t know if it works with FreeNAS but I can’t see why not – I’m using mostly FreeBSD 11.1 and the generic kernel is fine. And if you want to run a load of weird operating systems (like Windows XP) in VM format, it seems to work very well with the Xen hypervisor and Dom0 under FreeBSD. Or CentOS if you prefer.

So I shall end this review in true PCW style:


  • Cheap
  • Lots of CPUs,
  • Lots of RAM
  • Lots of HD slots
  • Great for BSD/ZFS or VMs


  • Noisy
  • no AES-NI
  • SAS needs upgrading
  • Limited PCI slots

As I’ve mentioned, the noise and SAS are easy and relatively cheap to fix, and thanks to BitCoin miners, even the PCI slot problem can be sorted. I’ll talk about this in a later post.


ZFS Optimal Array Size

So there I was looking at a pile of eight drives and an empty storage array, and wondering how to cofigure it for best performance under ZFS. “Everyone knows” the formula right? The best performance in a raidz array comes if you use 2^D+P drives. That’s to say your data drives should be a power of two (i.e. 2,4,8,16) plus however many redundant (parity) drives for the raidz level you desire. This is mentioned quite often in the Lucas book FreeBSD Mastery:ZFS; although it didn’t originate there I’ll call it the Lucas rule anyway

I have my own rule – redundancy should be two drives or 30%. Why? Well drives in an array have a really nasty habit of failing two at a time. It’s not sods law, it’s a real phenomenon caused by the stress of re-silvering shaking out any other drives that are “on the edge”. This means I go for configurations such as 4+2, 5+2, 6+2. From there on I go to raidz3 with 7+3, 8+3, 9+3. As there’s no raidz4, 12 drives is the limit – for 14 drives I’d have two vdevs (LUNs) of 5+2 each.

However, If you merge my rule with the Lucas rule the only valid sizes are 2+2 and 4+2 and 8+3. And I had just eight drives to play with.

I was curious – how was the Lucas rule derived? I dug out the book, and it doesn’t say. Anywhere. Having a highly developed suspicion of anything described as “best practice” I decided to test it on my rag-bag collection of drives in the Dell backplane, and guess what? No statistically significant difference.

Now the trouble with IT “best practice” guides is they’re written by technicians based on observation, not OS programmers who know how stuff actually works. The first approach has a lot of merit, but unless you know the reason for your observations you won’t know when the reason has become irrelevant. Unfortuantely, as an OS programmer, I now had a duty to figure out what this reason might have been.

After wading through the code and finding nothing much helpful, I did what I should have done first and considered the low-level disk layout. It’s actually quite simple.

Your stuff is written to disk in a series of blocks, right? In a striped array, each drive gets a block in turn to spread the load. No problem there. Well there will be a problem if your ZFS block size doesn’t match the block size on the drives, but that’s a complication I’m going to overlook – lets just assume you got that bit right.

So where does the optimal number of disks come from? I contend that on a striped vdev there never was one. The problem only comes when you add redundant drives.

I’m going to digress here to explain how error correcting data happens – in very simple terms. Suppose you have a sequence of numbers such as:

5 8 2 3

Each number is stored on a separate piece of paper, and to guard against loss you add a fifth number so that when you add them all up you get a total ending in zero. In this example, the total of the first 4 is 18. You can add an extra 2 to make the total 20, which ends in zero, so the fifth number is going to be 2.

5 8 2 3 2

Now, if we lose any one of those five numbers we can work out what it must have been – just work out which digit when added to the remaining four gives you a total ending in zero. For example, supposing ‘3’ when missing. Add up the remainder and you get 17. You need 3 more to get to a zero, so the missing number must be 3.

Digression over. ZFS calculates a block of error correction data for the blocks of data it’s just written and adds this as the last block in the sequence. If If ZFS blocks and sectors were the same size, this would be fine writing another sector is quick. But ZFS blocks no longer match sectors. In fact, they’re tunable over a wide range. We’ve also got 4k sectors instead of the traditional 512b. So, suppose you had 2k ZFS blocks on a 4k sector disk? Your parity data could end up being just half a sector, meaning that ZFS has to read it, overwrite half, and write it back rather than just writing it. This sucks. But if you choose the number of disks carefully, you end up with parity blocks that do fit. So, always make sure you follow Lucas’ rule, and make sure your data drives are a power of two.


This may have been true once, but now we have variable ZFS blocks sizes, and they tend to be much larger than the sector size anyway. In this situation the “magic” configurations no longer matter. And, now we have lx4 compression, the physical block sizes are variable anyway.

For those not in the know about this, lz4 compression is a no-brainer. It wont’ compress stuff it can’t, and its fast. Most files will compress to at least 2:1, often more – which means when you read a block only half the data needs to travel down the bus to get in memory. Everything suddenly goes twice as fast, at the expense of one core having to do some work. It’s true that the block and sector sizes are nowhere near matching, and this is bound to have a performance hit, but this is more-than eclipsed by the improved transfer rate.

So in summary, forget the 2^D+P “best practice” formula. It was only valid in the early days. Have whatever config you like, but I I do commend my rule about the number of redundant drives. This is based on a hardware issue, and update to the software is going to fix this any time soon.

ESXi, NFS, ZFS and vfs.nfsd.async

So there I was, reading the source code to FreeBSD’s nfsd (as you do), trying to figure out why ESXi’s performance was so bad when used with an NFS datastore in a ZFS dataset. Actually, I had some idea. There’s a lot out there on the interweb about whether it’s safe to tweak it to ignore requests to flush the write cache using the sysctl tunable vfs.zfs.cache_flush_disable. (For what it’s worth, I’d say that if your drives are on a UPS it’s fine).

But why does ESXis suck so badly in this respect with NFS connected datastores? What is this excessive cache flushing all about? I decided to install it on an HP Microserver and get to some serious debugging.

Okay, here is how ZFS writes work. When you write something it doesn’t actually write, it puts it in the ZIL. This is an Intent Log – i.e. writes intended to happen.  Not exactly a write cache, but it has the same effect, and because of the way ZFS works it’s perfectly safe for avoiding data corruption. If a transaction is waiting in the ZIL when the music stops, the transaction is lots but the disk isn’t trashed. (NB. It’s also possible to put a ZIL on a log drive rather than RAM – I won’t discuss this here).

This should speed things up, right? Normally it does, but not when NFS is being abused. Let me explain. NFS has a transaction commit instruction. The client can tell NFS to flush everything in a transaction to permanent storage and not return until it’s finished. Sometimes you really need this, like if you’re updating the super-block in a database structure. Most of the time you don’t.

Enter ESXi running brain-dead Windows guest machines. How does it know when they’re writing something it isn’t a super-block? It doesn’t. So its solution (as far as I can tell) is to send NFS a commit after every single write and hang around waiting until it’s done it. There’s no point in having the ZIL at all, as it needs to be flushed every time. Putting the ZIL on disk is even worse, as you get an extra write/read for each transaction. I’ve seen people trying to put fast SSDs on the system to try and overcome this – best of luck with that.

As you move further down the chain, FreeBSD, being POSIX compliant whenever possible, will pass on the request for a synchronous write all the way to the disk. Send a block to a SATA or SAS drive and it will initially be cached, right? The write will then complete and the data actually written in the background while the rest of the system zips along. Except that it then issues a SATA or SAS “flush cache” command and waits until everything in its cache has been committed.

In tests this paranoid behaviour lead to running at 20% throughput or less.

Now, if you’re backing an emulated Windows disk you’re always at risk of data corruption, because FAT and NTFS are corruptable. And, dare I say it, crash rather too often. Let’s face it, if you’re worried about stuff like that you wouldn’t be running Windows – never mind as a VM, So lets be sensible about it.

So why was I reading the nfsd code? Well the obvious answer to this performance problem would be to simply ignore NTFS commit commands coming from the client. This is better than killing off all synchronous writes using the tunable vfs.zfs.cache_flush_disable because ZFS itself might be updating its uberblock and have a valid reason for doing it.

My plan was to hack the code – I’ve seen this done elsewhere. But wanting to do things properly I thought I should make it a system tunable. So I took a look at where the synchronous writes were happening – vdev_disk.c and vdev_geom.c (depending on whether you were hitting the raw drive or the GEOM). Lo and behold there was a global called nfs_sync that was compared along with the SYNC flag, and if either were true the sync request was ignored.  So where did nfs_async come from? Digging further back it comes from nfs_nfsdserv.c , where it’s set by a system tuneable – vfs.nfsd.async. Now that’s an interesting name! Follow the stable auto variable in nfsrvd_write() and the nfs_async global if you want to see what I’m on about.

A quick Google for vfs.nfsd.async revealed – nothing. I seem to have found another useful tunable that’s yet to be documented. although it’s been in the source since at least 10.0. So I’ll get on to documenting after I’ve done a few more tests.

But if you’re having Windows/NFS problems, especially with ESXi, try setting  vfs.nfsd.async instead of crudely disabling cache flushing with vfs.zfs.cache_flush_disable. Let me know how you get on.

Incidentally, you can disable synchronous writes to a dataset using the “sync=disabled” ZFS option. It helps, but not much. I’m still digging to find out why.
Or you could just use Virtualbox instead.


FreeBSD, ZFS and Denial of Service

I’ve been using ZFS since FreeBSD 8, but I must be missing something. I know it’s supposed to be wonderful and all that, but I was actually pretty happy with UFS.

So what’s the up-side to ZFS? Well you get more error checking and correction. And it’s more “auto” when it comes to allocating disk space. But call me old fashioned if you like; I don’t like “auto”.

Penguinistas might not “get” this next bit, but on a UNIX system you didn’t normally have One Big Disk. Instead you had several, and even if you only had one, you’d partition the slice it up so it looked like several. And then, of course, you’d mount disks or partitions on to the root filing system wherever you wanted them to appear.

For reliability, you could also create mirrors and striped RAIDs, put a FS on them and mount them wherever you wanted. And demount them, and mount them somewhere else, and so on.

ZFS does all this good stuff, but automatically, and often as One Big Disk. A good thing? Well… no.

First off, I like to know where and on which disk my data actually resides. I’m really uneasy with ZFS deciding for me. If ZFS loses it, I want to know where to find it. I also like having a FS on each drive or partition, so I can pull the drive out and mount it wherever I want to get data off – or move it from machine to machine. It’s my data, I’ll do what I want to with it, dammit!

Secondly, with UFS I get to decide what hardware is used for each kind of file. Parts of the FS that are rarely used can be put on slow, cheap, huge disks. The database goes on a velociraptor or better, and the swap partitions – well! Okay, you can use a ZFS cache drive to automatically speed up the things that are actually used a lot, but I feel better doing it myself. I’m never really convinced that the ZFS cache drives are working.

And then you get the management issues with One Big Disk. With the old way, when an FS on a drive fills up, it is  full. You can’t create more files on it. You either have to delete unwanted stuff, or you can mount a bigger drive in its place. With One Big Disk, when it’s full, it’s also full. The difference is that you can’t write any data anywhere on the entire FS.

Take, for example, /var/log. Any UNIX admin with a bit of sense will have this in its own partition. If some script kiddie then did something that caused a lot of log file activity, eventually you’d run out of space in /var/log. But the rest of the system would still be alive. Yes, you can set a limit using ZFS dataset quotas, but who does? With UFS the default installation process created partitions with sensible sizes; ZFS systems install with no quotas whatsoever. Using the One Big Disk principle, ZFS satisfies the requests of any disk-eating process until there isn’t a single byte left anywhere, and then rolls over saying the zpool is full. Or it would say it if there was a monitor connected to the server in a data centre miles away, and there was someone there to look at it.

Okay, most of this has perfectly good solutions using ZFS. and I’ve yet to have a disaster with a ZFS system that’s required me to move drives around, so I don’t really know how possible it is when the chips are down. And ZFS has is a nice unified way of doing stuff, rather than fiddling around with geom and the FS separately. But after a couple of years with FreeBSD 10, where it became practical to boot from ZFS, shouldn’t I be feeling a bit more enthusiastic about it?


FreeBSD 10.0 and ZFS

It’s finally here: FreeBSD 10.0 with ZFS. I’ve been pretty happy for many years with twin-drive systems protected using gmirror and UFS. It does what I want. If a disk fails it drops it out and sends me an email, but otherwise carries on. When I put a replacement blank disk it can re-build the mirror. If I take one disk out, put it into another machine and boot it, it’ll wake up happy. It’s robust!

So why mess around with ZFS, the system that puts your drives in to a pool and decides where things are stored, so you don’t have to worry your pretty little head about it? The snag is that the old ways are dying out, and sooner or later you’ll have no choice.

Unfortunately, the transition hasn’t been that smooth. First off you have to consider 2Tb+ drives and how you partition them. MBR partition tables have difficulties with the number of sectors, although AF drives with larger sectors can bodge around this. It can get messy though, as many systems expect 512b sectors, not 4k, so everything has to be AF-aware. In my experience, it’s not worth the hassle.

The snag with the new and limitless “GPT” scheme is that it keeps safe copies of the partition at the end of the disk, as well as the start. This tends to be where gmirror stores its meta-data too. You can’t mix gmirror and GPT. Although the code is hackable, I’ve got better things to do.

So the good new is that it does actually work as a replacement for gmirror. To test it I stuck two new 3Tb AF drives into a server and installed 10.0 using the new procedure, selecting the menu option zfs on root option and GPT partitioning. This is shown in the menu as “Experimental”, but seems to work. What you end up with, if you select two drives and say you want a zfs mirror, is just that.

Being the suspicious type, I pulled each of the drives in turn to see what had happened, and the system continues without a beat just like gmirror did. There were also a nice surprises when I stuck the drives back in and “onlined” them:

First-off the re-build was almost instant. Secondly, HP’s “non-hot-swap” drive bays work just fine for hot-swap under FreeBSD/ZFS. I’d always suspected this was a Windoze nonsense. All good news.

So why is the re-build so fast? It’s obvious when you consider what’s going on. The GEOM system works a block level. If the mirror is broken it has no way of telling which blocks are valid, so the only option is to copy them all. A major feature of ZFS, however, is that the directories and files have validation codes in the blocks above, going all the way to the root. Therefore, by starting at the root and chaining down, it’s easy to find the blocks containing changed data, and copy them. Nice! Getting rid of separate volume managers and file systems has its advantages.

So am I comfortable with ZFS? Not yet, but I’m a lot happier with it when its a complete, integrated solution. Previously I’d only been using on data drives in multi-drive configurations, as although it was possible to install root on ZFS, it was a real PITA.

IP Expo 2011 – what was fun

That’s IP Expo over with for another year. I’ve never quite get what the show is about, but it’s one I seriously consider attending. It’s lack of focus is probably what makes it intersting. I’ve always suspected that some exhibition organiser kept reading about IP and decided it was a buzzword lacking its own show and started one. Anything connected to an IP network is fair game, and these days this means almost everything.

The Violin memory box is an amazing piece of kit – a massive, high-performance thumb drive connected via fibre channel. They’ve done a lot of work basically striping data across flash modules which boosts performance, avoids hitting the same flash chip repetitively and gives redundancy – I believe they can lose six modules before it bites and its hot swappable.

There were quite a lot of other storage solutions on show, some interesting, some very much the same. One company is using ZFS, which is a technology I’ve had my eye on for some time.

Prize for the fund gadget is Pelco’s thermal imaging camera – at less than £2K for the low-res version it suddenly becomes affordable, and it certainly works well enough. Still on CCTV, someone had a monitor connected to a web cam and some software to identity faces. Spooky. This put a mug-shot of everyone looking at the camera down the side of the screen, recorded how long they were standing there and guessed their sex and age. It actually took ten years of most people, which helped with the feel-good but this technology obviously works and an obvious application is snooping on people looking at shop windows to work out what attracts the right kind of demographic (why else would they have developed it). I should point out that this was showing off the screen – the web-cam and face recognition was a crowd-puller

Another interesting bit of kit is an LG stand-alone vmware terminal. This basicall allows you to virtualise your PC and use them on a thin client. The implications of this for managability are obvious – keep your PC environment in a server room, where it can be cloned and configured at will, and leave a dumb-terminal in the front line. If the terminal breaks or is stolen – no problem whatsoever. The snag? Well the terminals aren’t cheap and they could do with toughened glass.